converter replacement time...

[RISK]

Yeah, my ignorance is shining brightly here...

I spent some time on the phone with Dennis at Progressive Dynamics. The guy to talk to there, likes to talk converters and stuff.

The reason for my call was to make sure I was good putting a 60 amp converter into a 30 amp system. Dennis confirmed that was fine due to a bunch of things he said that I didn’t really comprehend. Cool, the thing I have (progressive dynamics pd9260 60 amp converter) will work with my system. Here is where he suggested two things...
A) invest in one of their distribution panels. Has ample ac and dc slots and on the back is a prewired outlet for the new converter, nice.
B) asked me if I’m increasing my wire run size...

So... why? I’m not going to increase my service to 50 amps. I’ll stay at 30. Why should I upgrade just because of my converter size? I’ll only put 30 amps through the converter, why upgrade to 60 amp wire?

Ian

[KYAvion]

So the 50 amp upgrade you hear people talking about is the shore power, or 120v AC system (i.e., your breaker box). The converter converts 120v to 12v and handles your DC system. I believe your 12v setup is probably similar to mine and is designed to run a 45 amp converter given the wire size (8AWG) from the batteries. Now unless you run a ton of 12v stuff at once, as far as I know your 60 amp converter isn’t going to utilize the total 60 amps, but I think your current wire size (probably 8AWG) is probably designed for only a 45 amp converter given how far it is from the batteries (thus more voltage drop).

Hope this helps. Someone else may be able to explain this better.

This thread may be helpful: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=838

[RISK]

The linked thread was helpful, thank you.

I understand the 50 amp vs 30 amp for the shore power. It’s the DC side of things that I get confused but becoming less so. I suppose I have a hard time seeing how I could ever use too much 12 v power... worst case scenario is every light is on (all LED), furnace is on, water pump is on, I’m playing an 8-track (yup, still in there) and I’m charging two iPads via the two 12 v outlets... am I missing anything?
What amperage do you think the above could possibly be?

I’d really rather not do another wire run if I can avoid it, perhaps someone bought the 45amp converter and would rather have a 60, I’d trade if in the same uninstalled condition mine is.

[silverloaf]

I'm not sure I understand the need to swap out the 110v-to-12v converter unless it's old and/or someone wants piece of mind. I still have the OEM converter.

All interior lighting is now LED except for one fluorescent ceiling light. The water pump, range hood fan and roof ventilators are all new. Surely I must be drawing 35-45% less amperage than OEM incandescent bulbs and stuff mentioned above.

What am I missing here that would motivate a new converter?

[KYAvion]

Some converters are known to fry batteries because they don’t regulate the charge. I haven’t noticed any problems with the converter in my Avion, but then again I am always on shore power so I haven’t really tested my batteries out.

I do plan to swap out the existing converter with a 45 amp Boondocker though. I’m doing this as part of an overall upgrade, which will also include upgrading to a 50 amp panel, as well as redoing the 12v fuses with automotive breakers. Just gotta find the time...

[RISK]

I'm not sure I understand the need to swap out the 110v-to-12v converter unless it's old and/or someone wants piece of mind. I still have the OEM converter.

All interior lighting is now LED except for one fluorescent ceiling light. The water pump, range hood fan and roof ventilators are all new. Surely I must be drawing 35-45% less amperage than OEM incandescent bulbs and stuff mentioned above.

What am I missing here that would motivate a new converter?

Hey Bob,
A couple reasons why I’d want to replace my old converter...

First, the battery maintenance issue. I have no way of knowing what is being delivered and when. Also, battery tech has come a long way since this thing was installed in ‘78.

Second, weight. That thing has got to weigh north of 30 lbs, the new one is +/- 5 lbs.

Third, I just happen to already have one that I bought for my Airstream (a bit prematurely I might add) so I figured I’d dig it out from storage and install...

However, I’ve decided to let things be for now. I cleaned as many of the contact as I could and generally tidied up while I had it open. I’ve got bigger fish to fry on the Avion right now such as the leak point I discovered under the AC unit which may or may not lead to a new AC.

Also, I’ve decided to re-dive in to my Airstream resto and keep doing maintenance on the Avion. I’ve been slowly replacing every clutch head screw and working on window seals and storage compartment seals.

You’re right though, there really isn’t anything wrong with the converter, so for now it stays.

Ian

[silverloaf]

Thanks for the info, Ian.

I've been running our converter full-time for about 4 months. It's mainly to get the shore power to the 110v plugs while I'm working on the re-do.

I might spring for a new converter down the road. Age and weight are at the top of my list.

[KYAvion]

Was just digging through some notes I had written to myself for when I install the new converter...

Existing blue and red wire (positive) - need 4 feet of minimum 8 AWG stranded to run to converter and wire clamp/connector; run largest gauge new converter will accommodate.

Existing white wire (neutral) - same as above. Check converter for largest size possible.

Ground for bonding to chassis- need 8 gauge at 8 feet to run to exterior storage compartment. Verify 8 gauge per converter manual.

Drill bit and plastic grommet or romex clamp for 110v from panel to converter.


Now 4 ft of wire for the positive and neutral runs is obviously way more than what’s necessary, but better to have extra than not enough. As far as the new wire to bond the converter to the chassis, the existing stranded copper may be fine. I just can’t tell where the existing bond wire goes. So it’d be easy to go ahead and run a new chassis bond wire via the nearby exterior compartment, so I thought I’d go ahead and do it to be on the safe side. If you do this too, just be sure to use a grinder and clean up the frame first where you intend to attach the new copper.

Just took another look at my converter setup today and I see there are extra knockouts to run 110 for the converter, so no need to drill any holes. All you need is a romex clamp. OR, if u wanna run your 110 out the bottom (as opposed to out the back of the panel), you can just use the existing clamp that feeds the current converter.

Also, if all you are doing is swapping out the converter with a deck mount converter, then there’s no need for an extra vent for airflow. There will be plenty of airflow once the existing converter is removed.

[RISK]

I think what I’ll do is hold off on replacing the factory one for now as I’ve things that are actually not working that need to be addressed (furnace and figuring out the fan motor for the roof vent).
When I do replace, I’ll install one of Progressive Dynamics panels as well, it has an outlet on the back for the converter. Depending on what it really takes to do a new wire run I’ll consider installing the 60 in the Airstream and purchase a 45 for the Avion.

Ian

[KYAvion]

I went ahead and swapped out my converter today. It’s a pretty easy swap. I ended up placing the converter much closer to the panel than planned, so I only used 21” of 8 AWG wire for the positive and negative feeds. I also used the existing 10 AWG blue wire from the old converter to jump from the positive lug on the 12v panel to the fuses. As seen in the pics, I used a black 8 AWG wire for the chassis ground from the converter to a second ground bar that I added for more space. This additional ground bar is jumped from the original ground bar via a short length of 8 AWG black wire. Ordinarily, this would be bare stranded copper or green, but I just used what I had on hand and I’ll switch it out later. At some point I’ll run a separate bare wire for the chassis ground from the converter directly to the frame. However, I’m pretty sure the bare wire seen connected to the factory ground bar on the left already does this, so it’ll be a little redundant.

I also opted to give the 4-stage Boondocker (45 amp) a try instead of a Progressive Dynamics. So far so good—the Boondocker is dead quiet with absolutely no hum.