Ordered new "operators" for windows

[WEB]

Here are photos of the operator and the left side attachment. The operator is secured with two, apparently 3/16", rivets closest to the outside. The lower inside hole falls in the weatherstrip channel and was not used. Likewise the upper inside hole.

The left side is held by a HDPE (or some other plastic) bracket that is secured with two Phillips head bolts into a metal bracket that is held by two rivets. I've had the plastic piece off, but that didn't release the connecting rod.

This conversation, and the photos, is causing me to revisit the steps I took on my first effort. At that time, I also removed the two screws in the ends of the exterior window hinge and the very small screw in the center, hoping to easily remove the window pane and give more room to work. The window did not come out easily after sliding it left and right and also rolling it up; so I didn't force it. However, it did give me the opportunity to replace the very corroded screws with stainless ones, which I've been doing at every opportunity.

My operator will have to be reinstalled with screws instead of bolts, as you did, because I can't get to the back of the frame without removing the whole window, which I'm loath to do. I'm going to go ahead and order enough operators for all the windows and then start taking things apart again. We don't currently have travel plans for the rest of the year, so I'll have the luxury of time (sort of).

[Razorback]

Without having it in front of me to experiment with, I would have guessed that the plastic collar on the left would have freed that rod. Was there any looseness at all with the plastic collar removed? I assume you had removed the c-clips to free those arms from the window?

I'll keep studying the pictures..... and, don't you just hate it when things are manufactured with no consideration given to the fact that something might need to be serviced in the future? I can just imagine them assembling all of that window before it got placed in the window opening...... everything nice and accessible up to that point.

[WEB]

Yes I had the clips removed and the operator arms freed and I would have certainly thought that it would have permitted the rod to pop out. It was still tight. I had the impression that the plastic clip had more to do with tension and lubricity and that the hollow rod might be held by a pin or rod on the inside. However, I'll restate that I wasn't putting undue pressure on anything that I touched. It was a case of not really knowing how everything fits together; hence not wanting to bugger things up by too much bashing. I used the past tense because with the repair parts in hand, I'll make a more concerted effort to remove and replace.

It's also a reminder of just how important photos and conversations like this could be for others with the same problem.

As for repair-ability, that should always be an integral part of all design and engineering. However, in conjunction with another project, a fellow at the Avion rally in Elkhart this past summer commented that as well built as the Avion is, they probably never envisioned it still going strong 43 years later. Not an excuse, but possibly a rationale (along with ease of production/cost) for using the pot-metal in the operator in the first place.

[Razorback]

All good points.

Looking forward to hear of your progress.

[Kep]

While not exactly my type of windows it is similar enough that it did help me to know how it will have to be done. I wonder how sheet metal screws worked out for the ones without access to the back of the operator. That is the part that scares me about doing this repair.

[Razorback]

Unless someone here responds with some practical experience, give Chuck Cayo a call and see what he recommends. My guess is that he’s done a couple thousand or so...

The best idea I can come up with is to secure them with Olympic rivets. You’ll need to make a good guess at the thickness of going through the operator plus the window frame.... them hope there is a rivet size available to do it.

[Kep]

I just remembered that I have a nut-sert tool and an assortment of rivet nut-serts and that just may be an idea that might work. I will check with Chuck and see what he thinks first though.

https://www.clipsandfasteners.com/Nutse ... a10273.htm

Mine is like this kit but has metric and SAE. Mine uses aluminum or steel threaded rivets with knurled tops to stop them from spinning after installation.
https://www.grainger.com/product/MARSON ... -Kit-5JK74

[WEB]

After the last round of posts, I downed tools on the windows in favor of other projects. However, I've used nut-serts before and I think the suggestion to try them here is spot-on. I previously borrowed the tool from a body shop but to do all the windows I'll probably buy one. It looks like there are several brand names (Rivnuts, Nutserts, probably others) and different styles of tool; and all that will take some pondering.

We're out for our last foray this weekend, after which and possibly into the winter I can turn my attention back to the windows.
Thanks again for the suggestion.
And if I don't here from someone what Cayo suggests I will call him; he's been tremendously helpful and giving of advice in the past.

By the way Kep, ours is also a 1975 28' LeGrande Twins, rear bath, front dinette. We even got the folding chair with Queen Ann legs, although we don't use it.
We logged over 6,000 miles this summer.

[jack.bayes]

You know, looking at the opening of the box makes me wonder if you can make a 'pressure cover' on the rear of the turning shaft that would force it back into the drive gear. Nylon would work, would prefer Teflon though. I know I'm going to have to remove perhaps ALL of my boxes before I can bring my unit to service and my stepfather can quickly 3-d print what I'm thinking about. I'll know more after I get the first box out and discuss this with him because I'd rather rebuild the box so I can grease it and know what I'm putting back in. He also has a tiny CNC unit...humm...

As my windows are in a MUST BE REPAIRED, this will happen quickly. I'll let everyone know what I discover and I'm going to be SURE to take a TON of pics. I got to admit I'm quite pissed about the gearboxes being this crappy...

BTW, thanks for this post. Now I understand why engineers must die.

[Razorback]

Ordered more operators and a couple of cranks ....... they should arrive tomorrow. Good price, and free shipping for a reasonable amount of purchase....

https://www.lifeandhome.com/products/us ... -crank-3-4

https://www.lifeandhome.com/products/us ... n-operator