Newbie with a '75 La Grande 31 ft

[BoredSkydiver]

Hey all,

I've been all over this forum for a couple of days now, I love all of the info in here. Like the title says, I've got 1975 La Grande 31 ft. I'm looking at doing some restoration and/or renovation to get it liveable and then living in it full-time.

I have roughly infinite ideas and questions about the whole thing, but I'm really excited to get to be a part of this awesome community. The trailer is/was my parents', and some of my earliest memories are of staying in it.

I'll start with the highest-level questions:

1) Has anyone done a remodel where they changed the floor plan? My dad swears he's seen remodels where the bathroom was moved forward and the aft turned into a bedroom, but I can't find any evidence of that kind of build anywhere.

I'm not really sure how that would play out what with weight distribution and having a heavy mattress that far rear, but it's an intriguing idea to say the least.

2) Has anyone removed the spray-in insulation in order to replace it with better r-value insulation and re-wire the camper? I'm not wild about leaving all the old wiring in and having to run a wiring chase, especially since I want to add significant solar and battery capabilities.

But it doesn't seem like anyone has done it, and I imagine there's a reason for that. From what I can tell, it would be a PITA to remove the OEM foam, and a bigger pain in the wallet to re-spray the whole thing.

3) How robust are the existing systems? I'm mainly interested in the electrical systems, frame, and running gear for this question. The trailer is in good shape, I currently stay in it on weekends. It needs some serious cleaning and some new appliances, but overall it seems pretty solid. However, "solid" means different things for a weekend warrior vs. a full-time RVer.

Is it feasible to get it into traveling shape without a full renovation, or would that be asking for problems? A full reno is a little beyond my means and timeline currently, so I'm thinking it might be best to do the bare minimum to get it liveable. Then I could work on planning, saving, and finding a place to actually do all the work.

Thanks for all the info I've already learned from this forum, I look forward to any advice you have to offer!

[Razorback]

Welcome to the group, BoredSkydiver! (I refrained from calling you "BS"... )

I have never done any renovation, but several here have. Have they removed the original foam? I don't think so, but we'll see. I see the benefit of doing that and rewiring, but my own thoughts might run towards figuring out how to rewire without doing that..... seems like a LOT of work and expense, but if you figure that into whatever you want the end result to be, it's yours to do!
Some have rearranged the floor plan. There again, I guess it all depends on how much work and expense you want to invest. Besides the costs, my calculations always consider the PITA value highly!

As for the frame and running gear, that depends on how well it has been taken care of in the past. Definitely depends on what part of the country it has been in. I have see some almost pristine frames and running gear.... also have seen some rust-buckets. Most I have seen are somewhere in between. For those, you can always find replacement parts to make them as close to new as you want. yours has a totally different suspension than our 1987 has, but your is a very good one. Not too sure why they ever changed from the one you have.

As for appliances, don't expect to find quality like what was originally in yours. Just my opinion. Like anything else, if you spend enough, you might be able to find and install a very nice stove/oven, but the original was hard to beat. Many options for new fridges..... from RV 2 or 3-way fridges, to residential-style. almost anything can be made to work to fit whatever you want to do.

Please keep us posted on your adventure!

[silverloaf]

There is nothing better in R-value/inch than closed cell polyurethane spray foam insulation. I used to pray it in my former business. This was revolutionary for Avion trailers. Modern foam has an R-value of 6-7/inch.

There are many benefits; among them:

• The foam is sprayed to the exterior skin after wiring. The foam adds stiffness and rigidity to the wall structure, primarily to the outside skin. Think of the wall as a structural insulated panel (or SIP.)

• The foam acts as a moisture/condensation barrier between the interior and exterior skins.

To re-wire, I suggest using an oscillating saw to create the small chase possible. Then fill it with low expansion gun foam ( not Great Stuff) . If you are removing large segments, you can purchase a 200 bf kit In both cases, you can trim it with the oscillating saw.

If interested, I can point you to the website I use with part numbers and descriptions.

[BoredSkydiver]

Silverloaf, thanks for the input!

Basically what I understand from you and other threads on here is that there isn't a modern foam that's as good as the stuff Avion used, or at least there isn't one that's enough of an improvement to justify the massive project of replacing it.

I assume this means that the R value and structural integrity of the OEM foam holds up well over time and with water exposure, etc.

I love the oscillating saw idea, and I'd love the parts numbers and stores for the right foam to refill. Does modern foam have suitable characteristics to replace the OEM if necessary? For instance replacing damaged insulation or using the panel method in new construction.

[Salty]

Re-arranging the floor plan can be easy or it can be very involved. Things like removing the tub and installing a shower pan/enclosure are easy. Making a rear bath into a mid bath is not.
When it comes to rewiring one of these, it is far simpler to route the wiring in such a way as to hide it from view.
I've seen overhead chases done in these as well routing wiring through existing cabinetry. IMHO, romex is not the wire of choice, but Marine wire, for both 12VDC and 120VAC, but, that's merely my opinion.
What is your end goal? Full time, weekend warrior, hunt lease? What time frame are you looking at?

[BoredSkydiver]

Razorback,

Very clever with the name joke there. It's sort of based on my dad's old jumpsuit brand BSO, but I can't think of a good O word, so I'm just BS. (If I'm being honest, that's not far off

PITA costs are definitely a huge consideration. I'm hoping that starting with a very detailed plan will keep me from diving headlong into a cesspit. So far, that seems to be working.

I'm barely into the shallows with my research, and the idea of rearranging the layout is already starting to look like a siren song. It sounds great, but if you look closer you start to see a whole lot of teeth and claws.

I haven't yet found any info addressing my initial concerns about structural integrity, balance, and towing dynamics. I'm still not sure the frame can handle the weight of the bed being moved all the way to the rear, and I'm not friendly enough with my engineer buddies to get free advice

In the process of learning how much I don't know, I've discovered how intricate the plumbing system is, and the once "simple" task of designing and building custom walls and cabinetry is starting to feel like the proverbial straw, and me the camel.

All that said, I'm a stubborn (and apparently masochistic) bastard, and I'm not willing to let the idea go just yet. I'll keep y'all posted so that my hubris will at least have some entertainment value.

As for the rest of it, I really appreciate the wisdom. I hadn't even considered the quality of modern appliance options vs OEM. Frankly, I was assuming that modern options would be universally better, and it's good to be reminded that "if it ain't broke don't fix it" is a time-honored tradition for good reason.

Unfortunately, it really only applies to one or two of the major appliances. The water heater, water pump, and furnace are definitely shot, and I'm not sure about the fridge.

The fridge still runs for now, but as old as it is I wonder about efficiency and remaining lifespan. I discovered the vent is packed with wasp nests after running it for a while so that may have added some wear and tear. Plus the options for replacement are attractive, especially the new 12v compressor models.

I haven't personally inspected the frame, but my dad got into the belly to repair some water damage last year, and he says it's in pretty good shape. It's spent most of its life stationary in Midwestern farmland, and there are very few leaks considering the trailer was basically unused for 20 years.

There's definitely surface rust, and I'm not optimistic about the moving parts of the suspension/wheels, but I'm not terribly worried about there being serious corrosion on the frame or body.

Thanks again for the info, I'll definitely be back with more questions as I go along!

[BoredSkydiver]

Salty,

Thanks for the input!

My initial goal is to be able to live and travel in the trailer full-time with the minimum amount of time and money.

Getting the trailer liveable is my first priority, and I'd like to have that done within about 2 months. It's currently parked in at a campsite with cheap rent, a toilet, and a shower, so I can live there temporarily without water systems, though I'd prefer not to. Once it's habitable, I want to be able to travel south before the weather turns nasty, about 5 months from now.

I'm in the early stages of planning, research, and diagnostics, but from my initial impressions I think both goals are achievable. Overall the trailer is in good enough condition for me to stay in it on weekends, and there aren't any obvious signs of serious issues. However, there are still enough unknowns that I'm not dead-set on that timeline.

Here's what I know and don't know:

The electrical system works well and the air conditioner is brand new. The fridge seems to work, but its vents are filled with wasp's nests, so it's not useable right now and I haven't seriously tested it. The major leaks have been fixed, as has the one area of water damage on the floor.

There are some minor repairs, and everything needs a deep cleaning, but the biggest known issue is the water system. The city water inlet isn't flowing correctly, the pump and heater need to be replaced, and I have no idea about the condition of any of the holding tanks. The furnace also needs replaced.

Everything else is currently unknown. The trailer sat almost completely neglected for almost 20 years, so I'm sure that's bound to have had negative effects on a lot of things with seals and moving parts, like the faucets and the plumbing seals. I think there are also some small leaks still.

As far as the actual remodel, there are so many unknowns that I can't really give a good estimate of when, what, or how much. Right now I'm in research mode to learn as much as I can about the trailer. I want to know what things I should be looking out for in the first "phase" of my project and be able to make a detailed, realistic remodel plan.

Ideally, I'd like to start demolition by next spring and spend around 6 months of full time work on the build, but I fear that may be too optimistic.

[silverloaf]

Silverloaf, thanks for the input!

Basically what I understand from you and other threads on here is that there isn't a modern foam that's as good as the stuff Avion used, or at least there isn't one that's enough of an improvement to justify the massive project of replacing it.

I assume this means that the R value and structural integrity of the OEM foam holds up well over time and with water exposure, etc.

I love the oscillating saw idea, and I'd love the parts numbers and stores for the right foam to refill. Does modern foam have suitable characteristics to replace the OEM if necessary? For instance replacing damaged insulation or using the panel method in new construction.

I don't know what is meant by "modern" foam. Our trailers use closed-cell, low-expansion spray foam. It was invented by a German scientist in the 1940s and became widely used in the construction industry in the 1970s. It is used in residential, commercial and industrial applications. Certainly, formulation improvements have been made in the last 80 years. Like any product, the method of application can affect its end-result performance.

There is another variant called open-cell, high-expansion spray foam. It, too, is used in building applications. But it behaves totally different than closed-cell. It does not have the structural integrity and density of closed cell. Rather than pontificate at length on the comparison, below is a simple explanation for you to read.

https://blog.polytechinc.com/open-vs-cl ... m-article/

I have also included the website where I have purchased my foam products over the past 15 years. I have ordered from them since the days when I owned an insulation business. Once you peruse the site, I'll explain to you what I have used.

https://wholesale.poweredbyefi.org/products/foam.html

[Razorback]

"As for the rest of it, I really appreciate the wisdom. I hadn't even considered the quality of modern appliance options vs OEM. Frankly, I was assuming that modern options would be universally better, and it's good to be reminded that "if it ain't broke don't fix it" is a time-honored tradition for good reason.

Unfortunately, it really only applies to one or two of the major appliances. The water heater, water pump, and furnace are definitely shot, and I'm not sure about the fridge."

I am not surprised about the water heater, water pump, and furnace if they are original. The picture in my brain when I was commenting about appliances was of the Magic Chef stove/oven. I think that's what you have? Those were built like a TANK compared to the new ones I have seen. There are some beautiful, expensive new ones (maybe marine use??), but from what I have seen in new RVs...... Not impressed. They just look cheap and fragile ( kind of like a lot of new RVs, I guess ), but maybe they'll last as long as what they are riding in. I LOVE the Magic Chef stove in our Avion. Oven is almost pristine, cook top is great but under the hinged top is the tray where the burners are. From a previous roof leak that apparently wasn't addressed for a long time, there is surface rust that needs to be cleaned up with a wire wheel, prepped, then covered with some high-temp black paint..... I will get that done soon. The only time I really think about it is when I lift the top to turn off the pilot light..... Then it's forgotten until next time.

I have swapped the furnace in our 34-footer, but I'm sure it's different than what you have...... Maybe yours will be as easy to swap.

[BoredSkydiver]

Silverloaf,
For some reason I thought you were drawing a comparison between the original foam and the foams available now. Not sure where that little story came from. If I'm correct, you were actually saying that there isn't anything that's better for this application than closed-cell poly foam?

Along that line, I assume that tearing out all of the old foam isn't worth it because there aren't significant benefits between the original foam and brand-new closed-cell foam?

Razorback,
We've got the original Magic Chef oven range, in very similar condition to yours. The oven door hinges are a little wobbly, I think they may have loosened over time but they still work fine and I think they can be repaired easily. Definitely agree that it's a beautiful little oven and, I see no reason to replace it.