1986 30P rear restoration journal

[Nelsonpharmd]

Introduced myself on the introduction page and figured I'd start chronicling my exploratory work on our 1986 30P. We also have a 1972 Argosy that we'll soon be selling (our family grew and we needed more space!). Just like with our Argosy, I've never been a fan of belly pans. I get their purpose and they serve it well, but I'm the kind of person that likes to be able to take a quick peek down there and get a sense for how things are doing. Brought our new to us camper home last weekend and immediately started to remove the belly pan since the PO indicated there had been some rear floor rot that he repaired. I could tell instantly that the rear frame had suffered. As you can see from the pictures below, the rear will need some metal/weld work, as well as a new bumper. I noticed quite a bit of rust on the pivot point of the split axles and just as I suspected, we have a crack in our grey (I think) tank. Fairly sure it's the grey tank since I think I see the plumbing that leads to the main discharge valve. I mentioned in my intro post that the camper has that typical "old" smell. Boy was it bad when I got to the mid belly. You could tell the tank had been leaking for a while and the insulation must have soaked it all up. The frame and running gear really took a beating there but I'm sure that'll clean up just fine.

I'll guess I'll start with my first question which is: have folks ever repaired these cracked tanks by heat welding a patch over the cracks? I've never done that but the folks over on the airstream forum are big on that solution. Not even sure what the availability for new tanks for these Avions even looks like.

Here are some pictures of the rear frame and the mid-belly tank to give you an idea of what I'm working with. The running gear looks pretty rusty but I looked over the leaf springs and associated components and didn't see any cracks. I'll be servicing the bearings for sure, but I may just clean up the springs and axles for now while I work on more pressing items (like sealing up any leaks). Any feedback is welcomed!

P.S. Anybody know how to turn these darn pix around so they're not upside down????

[silverloaf]

We have a '88 30P similar in layout to yours. We went through an extensive restoration and re-build after purchasing it in 2017. It included replacing 25 ft. of rear floor, fabricating steel cross-members supporting the floor and tanks, and overhauling the axle, suspension and brakes. Our tanks didn't require repair. If you get the pics oriented in the right position, I'm sure I'll be able to help you with everything else.

KYAvion is the best team member to help you sort out the orientation issues.

[Razorback]

For the picture orientation, I have the same issue with phone pics. I use a photo editor on my laptop to fix the orientation, then I upload them to a post.

[Nelsonpharmd]

Thanks Paul/Bob!

Bob, yeah, I'm a little nervous to see what I find. We've emptied her out of all of the PO belongings (they left EVERYTHING in there). I've checked under the twins and all around, and everything seems solid, but I know there's got to be some rot hiding somewhere especially the back. From the bottom you can tell there's still some rot in the corners, but when I look through the back cubie access (the one under the license plate) there's another interior hatch that lets you look into the corner where the shower/tub is and that actually looks okay, so I'm thinking just the bottom/road-facing side is what's rotted.

Here's the dilemma, we'd like to drive up to Wisconsin and back at the beginning of June, and I know there's no way I can tear up the bathroom and have it back together again before that, so, I'm thinking of prioritizing the following items:

1. Seal up the roof like you guys did. The PO did eternabond years ago but it's falling apart. I've started to wash the roof and was going to reapply eternabond over the seams and rivets and then maybe coat with Koolseal.

2. While I'm up there, I have a couple of MaxxAir fans that I was going to put in. Thanks goodness this year's model seems to have 14" openings rather than 18" ones like I think I've noticed on the older models

3. Running gear - doesn't really look too bad. At least I plan on repacking the bearings and cleaning up the loose rust then applying POR-15 or even just Ospho. I planned on replacing all the leaf springs eventually anyway so as long as I can get the rust under control then I think I'll probably be alright

4. Seal up the mid belt line that goes around the middle. It's separated from the entry side in the rear and I'm sure that contributed to the rot that occurred on that side (the shower/tub side).

The rear frame obviously needs some help and I'm a fairly decent at welding so I'll probably attack that once we get back. We'll keep as much weight off the back as possible for now. I even took out the spare from the back cubie. The gray tank obviously has a crack. Better than it being in the black tank I suppose LOL. Not sure if I can heat weld a patch over that or if I'll need to replace the whole thing.

Bob - any tip/suggestions you can share???

[silverloaf]

For that kind of trip, I suggest you focus on the mechanicals of travel. Floors, fans. roof leaks, etc. are cannon fodder compared to a safe and worry-free towing experience.

• Tires

- the one thing you don't want is a blow-out in the middle of the boonies. Ours were cracked and leaking air when we bought it. You will get different opinions in the forum as to the best tire. Discount Tire recommended the optional Load Rang E tires when I had them replaced. You can also get road hazard protection for the life of the tire.

• Brakes

- make sure the shoes have enough lining material and the electric servos are working. Check all the brake hardware for integrity. Avions used manual-adjust brakes. You can purchase a brake-adjusting tool from Dexter Axle. It is designed to fit around the suspension parts so that you can reach the star wheel through the backing plate. Should you ever decide to replace the brake lining, Dexter offers a no-adjust brake kit that eliminates the need for periodic adjustment.

• Bearings and Suspension

- Yes, it is important that the bearings, races and seals are in good condition. Should you need to replacement, I strongly recommend Dexter bearing parts. Dexter bearings are made here. Don't get sucked into cheap off-shore bearings and brake components. Avion is the only trailer I know that has shock absorbers. If they look questionable, the forum has names and model number for replacement. Mine are made by Monroe.

• Suspension and Axles

If your trailer is like ours, it will have adjust-a-ride suspension. Each wheel has a half-shaft that connects to a bracket in the middle of the trailer. If the rubber bushings appear to have disintegrated, it could have a big effect on tire wear. Replacement parts limited but available.

• Wiring

- All the electrical running gear must work. Lights, electric brakes, etc. would deserve serious attention on my part. Before we moved from Michigan to Georgia, I spent a lot of time in this area. As we pulled out the driveway, I learned the marker and running lights didn't work. My wife had to follow the trailer and act as my surrogate lights. We faced heavy rain and wind shear for 750 miles. I found out later I had spiked the wiring while re-installing the front wall panels. It was a rather nerve-wracking experience.

We installed 3 MaxxAir ventilators in our trailer. There are some techniques I can share with you when you get to that point. Same for the questionable floor.

[Nelsonpharmd]

Bob - you're totally right. I really should focus on the road worthiness of it. After all, 2-3 more weeks in the elements aren't going to make things get much worse that haven't happened already in over 30 years of probably being uncovered

I don't remember whose post I saw this under, but I recall reading someone on this forum saying they spoke with Chuck and that he said if the suspension isn't broken, don't fix it. I really need to get under the trailer and take a more detailed lool, but I think the leaf springs and such may be salvageable. I have Adjust-a-Ride and the central pivot point plates look pretty corroded (probably because the crack in the gray tank is conveniently directly over the front axle pivot point. I guess I'm wondering:

- maybe just check the bearings/races/seals and regrease for now
- check the brakes. If they're not up to par, is there a particular part number/model that I should get from
Dexter? I thought I also saw someone on here post a while back about a premade hub assembly with
associated brakes that could be purchased and installed (versus buying each of the components individually)

I'm planning on getting under there some more tomorrow and taking some more pix and doing some more investigating so I'll report back what I find...

[Nelsonpharmd]

Finally had a chance to jack up the trailer, and use the cribbing idea that I saw on Paul's brake/shock rebuild. Took the wheels off and then one of the hubs to see what was in there. The grease was actually still largely its original blue color. This was in line with what the PO had said - the tires and bearings had been serviced about 4 years back. As I was looking at everything a few questions came up:

1. bearings - I noticed that there is absolutely no identification number stamped on the edge of the bearings and at least the first outer one that I took out had a LOT Of slop between the inner and outer layers, so we'll be putting in new ones for sure. I imagine I just have to take out my calipers and measure the ID and OD?

2. Leaf springs - Paul, couldn't tell from your brake/shock post, but it looks like you just cleaned up the existing leaf springs and painted them over, is that right? I was debating on just replacing them since I already had the trailer up anyway

3. Wet bolts/shackles - was glad to see wet bolts and the thicker/HD shackle plates that Dexter uses. Is it easy to take out wet bolts and reuse or should I order new ones?

4. Axle central pivot point - I read a few posts where folks had completely removed the split axles and replaced the bushing at the central pivot point where the axle attaches to the mid-belly. Debating on whether I should bite the bullet or not. Tires looked evenly worn so I'm guessing the alignment is pretty darn good as it is. Maybe just clean up the axles in situ and give them a good coat of paint?

5. Brakes - I'm no brake expert, but that lining looks pretty darn thin to me, so I'll be ordering the same 5 bolt set that Paul ordered for his rebuild.

6. Axle spindle - looks like there's some corrosion or something in the central part of the spindle - I think that's the central part (the bearings ride on the sections to the left and right of it based on the picture orientation below). Should I be concerned about that at all? My gut says no since that area really just holds some of the spare grease twirling around in there as the wheels on the bus go round and round (sorry, have two young boys - couldn't resist)

Any advice on the items above would be greatly appreciated!!!!

I'll try to get back out there tomorrow to finish taking everything apart. Just need to decide whether to replace those leaf springs or not...decision, decisions (Finally figured out the picture orientation thing, so they'll all straight after this post)

[silverloaf]

Unfortunately, all my records are in storage, waiting for our new house to be finished. Here are a few thoughts and memories about our restoration:

- Razorback compiled a parts list of bearing components in the post below. No off-shore junk there. It is located in the running gear category of the main index screen
https://www.aviontrailers.net/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=280

- Our electric brake and backing plate assys were very rusty and corroded. I opted to replace them. Dexter does offer a brake and backing assembly. I ordered the assembly with the no-adjust feature. Etrailer's prices were absurd. I ordered mine from:
https://www.easternmarine.com/dexter-trailer-parts
The part number I used are:
12" x 2" NEV-R-ADJUST™ Electric Brake Assy - L.H. / 6k #K23-458-00 - $82.75 ea.
12" x 2" NEV-R-ADJUST™ Electric Brake Assy - R.H. / 6k #K23-459-00 - $82.75 ea.

- Since I was doing a complete suspension and brake overhaul, I removed everything. Regarding the springs, there is a dimension between the pivot points that corresponds to the number of leafs in the springs. If I recall, the centerline distance between the pivot points was 29". The ones on the driver side were ok. One on the passenger side was roughly 30". I replaced both through Etrailer. The right-side brakes, suspension, shocks and tires tend to take the greatest amount of abuse from potholes, curbs and road drainage.

- The axle pivot consists of a pivot bolt, bushings and spacers. The bushings were used in the upper control arms of late 50s to early 60s Ford Galaxy 500 vehicles. They consist of a rubber material sandwiched in a meter carrier. They are absolutely miserable to replace unless done by a auto repair parts/ repair place with a serious bench press.
The key is condition of the rubber. A sloppy bushing can affect tire wear. The factory spec for the number of spacers between the steel carrier and support bracket is 5 on the front side and 4 on the back.

- My spindles had markings that suggested overheat or lack of grease. A local repair shop mic'ed the spindle and used a fine sand paper to dress them. Unless your spindles are blackened or grooved, you should be OK.

Being a former powertrain engineer and hands-on mechanic, I've always errored on the conservative side. I can afford to by good parts because I work cheap. It's rather subjective. I don't like surprises and breakdowns further on down the road. Some people are comfortable with risk; I am not.

[Nelsonpharmd]

Thanks Bob! I went ahead and ordered the brake assemblies you listed, and the bearing/seals/races that Paul had noted on hid thread.

For your overhaul, did you also replace the shackles and bolts (hopefully you had wet bolts). I was debating on reusing mine if they didn't look bad, but I was curious what you had experienced.

I took the wheels, hubs, and brake assemblies off today. Tomorrow's plan (in between actually doing my day job LOL) is removing the springs, and the rest of the hardware. I ordered the pivot bushings too and will just take them to my old school mechanic to have him press the old ones out and new ones in. I'm iffy on taking them off (since I've learned sometimes its better to let sleeping hippos lay), but I may take a closer look at them first and go from there.

I'll post more pictures as parts come in and the work continues.

Thanks again!

Nelson

[Nelsonpharmd]

Spent part of the day today removing the running gear....man am I going to feel that tomorrow. First side took me about 2 hours; the other about 1 hour. I used an impact wrench but my 40 year old back isn't what it was 20 years ago, so I'm sure I'll be sore tomorrow.

I was looking around the internet and I stumbled across some of these MorRyde equalizer upgrades. Looks like this would replace the central equalizer on a tandem axle (such as mine) but also adds a crossmember. I didn't see any mention of either the MorRyde SRE4000 or the CRE3000 (links below).

Has anyone done this sort of an upgrade? More importantly, did it make much of a difference compared to the stock Adjust-A-Ride Suspension?

MorRyde SRE4000 - https://www.morryde.com/wp-content/uplo ... ctions.pdf

MorRyde CRE3000 - https://www.morryde.com/wp-content/uplo ... ons_v4.pdf