I need some guidance please!

110 volt, 12 volt, Batteries, Converters and Inverters, Solar
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KYAvion
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Re: I need some guidance please!

Post by KYAvion »

First off, the GFCI in the bathroom is most likely on its own circuit. You likely have the following:

Microwave circuit
Bathroom circuit (gfci)
General outlet circuit
Air conditioner circuit

So when the heater stopped working the outlet also stopped working, but the breaker to that circuit did not trip?

It’s really hard to diagnose this without being there. If it were me I’d probably start with what appears to be the last working outlet in the series. I’d remove the outlet and make sure it is wired correctly (black wires connected to brass screws, white wires connected to silver screws). Using the multimeter, I’d verify juice is on the cables on both sides of the outlet (i.e., cable feeding the outlet, as well as cable carrying the load from the outlet). If there is juice on both, then move on to the next in the series and make sure it’s wired correctly, etc.

Please take a pic of the outlet wiring so we can verify it’s wired correctly. Also include a pic of your multimeter reading on the wires if you can.
KYAvion
1984 Avion 30R
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KYAvion
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Re: I need some guidance please!

Post by KYAvion »

DJ18 wrote: Tue Dec 08, 2020 6:16 pm there is no hot wires going to the outlet that quit working.

How do you know the cable feeding this outlet is not hot? Did you test the cable with your multimeter? Be sure to take a reading from both cables, since it may be difficult to tell which cable feeds the outlet and which cable carries the load from the outlet. Something you can do once the line (the cable feeding power to the outlet) is determined is to mark that cable with a piece of black electrical tape. If neither cable has juice, then at this point you can’t determine with certainly which cable is the line and which is the load.

Assuming your multimeter shows no juice, then the issue is most likely at the previous outlet in the series.

Again, please take a pic to show what you’ve done.
KYAvion
1984 Avion 30R
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Re: I need some guidance please!

Post by DJ18 »

I'm encouraged that I actually understand what you're talking about!

I got another GFI outlet that accommodates the heavy gauge wires used in the Avion wiring. I got that on with little trouble, but realized I had no idea which was load and which was line. (after I understood about load and line wires) Originally I kept the wires in exactly the position they were in, thinking I would be able to just put them back as they were, but all the twisting and struggling to get the new outlets in, both by me and my husband, they got out of order and I lost track. If I'd known, I would have marked which were which.

I realized the new gfi couldn't work because no power to the previous outlet. so found a test wire with a little light. (still couldn't find the multimeter) I checked the little wire on a working outlet, and it lit up when current was present between two wires.

I realized both outlets had to come out again, and I'd need to figure out which wire was the line wire.

When I tested the two heavy wires at the first dead outlet, I was surprised to find neither of them seemed to be hot, testing with the little wire between white and black wires. So I assume no power to that outlet. I was afraid I'd have to go to the next live outlet. I guess I will be able to figure out which is the line wire for sure then. If there is nothing wrong with the way that one is wired, does that mean a break in the load wire some where in the wall, keeping it from carrying juice to the next outlet?

thank you yet again for the help!
debbie
1985 Avion 25H
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KYAvion
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Re: I need some guidance please!

Post by KYAvion »

Can you help me understand how the gfci factors into all this? My assumption is that the gfci is in the bathroom, and is on a separate circuit. Therefore, it would have nothing to do with the outlets that are not working. Is this not the case? Is that wrong?

Please attach a pic of your Avion’s breaker panel.

Also attach a pic of the gfci you are referring to.
KYAvion
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DJ18
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Re: I need some guidance please!

Post by DJ18 »

It appears to be on the same circuit as the other outlets. I can take pictures tomorrow. If it were on a separate circuit, wouldn’t it still have power? But it is 2nd of 4 outlets in a line that are not working. The ones that are working are the first 3 along the line. Yes the gfi is in the bathroom.

The breakers are labeled: main, AC, receptacles, and microwave/converter. Those seem to share one breaker.

Of course I could be wrong in any of my assumptions!

I’ve gone from baffled to determined, so that’s a step, and I’m learning by my mistakes, another step. Two days ago I was convinced we weren’t up to owning an older trailer being older ourselves. But not ready to give up yet.
debbie
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Re: I need some guidance please!

Post by DJ18 »

And the gfi is in the mix because it was mentioned that as a weak link, it could be part of the problem. Now I don’t think it is...or was! Now that I’ve scrambled those wires, it’s another thing to sort out!
debbie
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KYAvion
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Re: I need some guidance please!

Post by KYAvion »

I’m surprised you don’t have another breaker for just the bathroom. I believe my Avion does, but l’ll have to double check it.

Get some wire nuts—preferably the red ones.

Since we can’t see your outlets, we need to rule out any miswiring/poor connections. So let’s eliminate them for now....

Shut the receptacles breaker off. Then, starting with GFCI, connect the 2 black wires together with a wire nut, the two white with a wire nut, and the grounds with a wire nut. Tug on the wires one at a time to make sure the wire doesn’t pull away from the wire nut. Turn the breaker back on and test all your outlets. If one doesn’t work and you feel confident the outlet is wired correctly, then shut the breaker off and remove the outlet BEFORE the one that doesn’t work. Connect the blacks, whites, and ground with wire nuts. Turn the breaker back on, and test your outlets again. Next do the outlet that didn’t originally work—black to black, white to white, ground to ground. Keep going down the line until you have power. You can stick your multimeter leads in the wire nuts to test for power as you go. When you stop working on it, turn the breaker OFF for now.

Does this make sense?
KYAvion
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Re: I need some guidance please!

Post by DJ18 »

Yes! I’m just eliminating outlets and making a continuous unbroken line of power from the last working outlet to the first one with no wiring errors. If I get power on one down the line, it also checks for breaks in the wires, so means no breaks in the wires either. We so seldom use shore power, I’m tempted to leave the lines connected with wire nuts and just eliminate those two,, if the bedroom ones work, that would be enough. But that close to getting it, by then I’ll probably go back and finish.
Thank you!
debbie
1985 Avion 25H
DJ18
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Re: I need some guidance please!

Post by DJ18 »

I’m sort of at a dead end. The black to black and white to white at both the GFI in the bathroom and the non working outlet before it are wired together. The outlets following those on the chain have a little juice, about 5 v. One black wire coming from the last working outlet also has about 5 v. The last working outlet had 119 v.

That outlet is different, it is in the metal wall and was sort of stuck into the foam, I pulled it out and the wiring is enclosed in a tight snap on box. DH helped me get it out and the back off. The wiring connections are different, but all look good. What is very odd it that both wires go back toward the converter. Impossible to tell which one is taking electricity to the next outlet. (the fist dead one)

I have read the 110 wires are in the walls but the direction of those wires makes me puzzled.

I think I give up and will have a shade tree electrician take a look at it :(
debbie
1985 Avion 25H
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KYAvion
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Re: I need some guidance please!

Post by KYAvion »

Did you have 120v where you used wire nuts on the blacks and whites that go to the gfci? What about the wires for the outlet before it?
KYAvion
1984 Avion 30R
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