Tools, begone

[Tarnished]

As I age there's a tendency to rid my existence of 'stuff'. Bought an Avion last year. Went to fla in my Argosy this past winter as the Avion wasn't ready. Sold it 2 days after returning to Va. Had to empty it of all sorts of accumulated stuff. Recently going through my office, getting rid of 'stuff' I came across the items used to repair the Argosy on the road. A largess box. Within which were: self tapping screws of assorted sizes. Lots of rivets, different sizes. 2 pop rivet tools. Various pcs of aluminum of different sizes for repairs/patchs. All sorts of plumbing fitttings and electrical stuff.
I'm happy to say none, absolutely none of this 'stuff' is needed when traveling in the Avion.

[Razorback]

Amen, brother!

That’s why I cringe when I see ads for an Avion that say, “Like an Airstream.”

Other than it’s silver color and some similar RV parts, it’s totally different, in a “better” way.

[Rostam]

I saw an Airstream about 7 years ago and decided I wanted one. I started researching it (Thats just how I am . I first research things to death, and then make a move. I'm happy being this way. My wife not so much!). The more I read about Airstreams the more disappointed I got. I eventually bought an Avion (3 years ago) which has none of the problems Airstreams have. Here are Airstream issues per my research:

1. Airstream frame has traditionally been weak (just Google rear-end separation/sag). In 1985-1986 Airstream reinforced the frame a bit and it went from completely unacceptable to barely acceptable. You can't put a bike rack at the back as it "puts pressure on the frame". You put up the stabilizer jacks and may not be able to open/shut the door properly. Floor squeaks as you walk inside. It seems the frame is made of glass. Avion’s frame has 3 beams that run the length of trailer, beams are deeper, and frame is further reinforced in axle area.

2. The axles/suspension. Airstream owners report that when towing their trailer, hangers falls off the rod, bathroom mirrors fall off, and sometime whole cabinets fall off. This is partly due to poor workmanship and not properly fastening the pieces to the shell. Its also partly due to all the forces that are transferred to the trailer due to Airstream’s sub-par axles/suspension system. I once stopped in a rest area (in OHIO, on I-80), and left my coffee mug on the dinette in our Avion. After another 100 miles, for my next stop in another rest area, my coffee mug was right where I had left it and it had not even spilled. This seems like science fiction to Airstream owners who are used to having a Tornado inside their trailer. Avion's Adjust-a-Ride or Mohr-Ryde axles /suspension with 1 or 2 shocks per wheel gives Avion a much smoother ride.

3. Leaks. Airstreams are shaken apart during travel, and the factory caulking is also a joke (just look at an Airstream’s roof. These trailers are shipped leak-ready from the factory). Its very difficult to keep seams and rivets water tight. After applying Parbond/Eternabond to my trailer, I, knock on wood, have not had any leaks and my trailer is parked outside yearround.

4. Poor subfloor design. Airstreams leak like a sieve. The way frame/shell/subfloor are connected together, subfloor is a major contributor to structural integrity of the trailer (it seem much more so than an Avion). So, subfloor definitely needs to be fixed and many times this requires a shell-off which is time consuming. Lots of work due to a poor/old design.

5. Lack of interior/exterior storage. Lack of storage is a practical problem for actually using Airstreams for camping. Avion’s have much more storage.

6. Lack of insulation. Difficult to keep an Airstream cool/warm. Avion has spray on foam insulation in its shell and a layered subfloor design (plywood, insulation, plywood). Airstream has no floor insulation and they use pink insulation in shell, which falls off when the trailer is shaken apart during tow and gets wet when it leaks. Its a mess.

7. Filiform corrosion. The aluminium shell in some (many?) of the newer Airstreams (past 15 years?) corrodes. You have to follow a strict maintenance regiment and it cannot even stop it (it will only slow it). Forget about going near the ocean or a desert or else your trailer is doomed.

8. Towing. This is not scientific. It seems Airstreams do not tow as well as advertised. I have never towed an Airstream but have seen dozens of threads at Airforums where terrified Airstream owners want to go to Canada to setup their hitch by the “expert” up there. My view is if only one RV shop in Canada can “setup” you trailer, you have a problem. I had never setup a weight distribution hitch before, just followed the manufacturer's instructions, visited a scale, and, knock on wood, have never had any stability issues or white knuckle moments. I find it ironic that Airstreams (“The best towing trailers on the planet”) are so susceptible to sway.

9. Poor workmanship. I carefully inspected about a dozen new Airstreams at Hershey RV show last year. Poor workmanship and cheap/low quality components were a common theme. The step is a joke and a danger and I only weight about 160#. The privacy shade on a $150k trailer seem to have been sourced from Dollar General. Lots and lots of gaps where trims meet walls, etc. Surface rust on A-frame of a band new trailer and extremely poor caulking job (my 8 year old would surely do a better job). When you travel, you’d want a reliable trailer (specially when far away from home). The way Airstream’s are put together, they are far from being a reliable/practical trailer.

10. Shell strength. This is not scientific, but I’ve seen many Airstreams destroyed by falling trees. The shell seems to crush like a can of soda. I’ve also seen trees fall on an Avion – trailer gets badly damaged and totaled, but the shell is still standing. It seems the shell in Avion, like its frame, is more stout.

11. Airstream community. This is not scientific either. The community seems to be a double edge sword. While its big and active, which can be an asset, they also seem to have more than their fair share of bad apples Some are snotty and look down on other trailer brands. Some even look down on older/vintage Airstreams. On the other hand, all the Avion owners I’ve “met” online or in person have been friendly and down to earth.

Mind you none of these issues are obvious to an average Joe. I certainly did not know about them 7 years ago. People see something shiny and pay a pile of cash to have it. Then they become defensive and start defending their expensive toy. Just visit Airforums to watch the circus

This has been my (very long!) observation. I’m very happy I ended up with an Avion.

[Razorback]

I’ll stop you when I disagree with something you have to say.....

[Razorback]

I’ll be the first to admit that Avion had some of the same kinds of marketing as Airstream. In a nutshell: “If you have one of these, your ship has arrived!”, and, “Nothing else measures up!”

At least on the second point, Avion had a legitimate argument.

I am soooooooo glad that I had the benefit of my dad’s travel trailer experiences (which included and Airstream and an Avion, among several others prior). I got to start with the best!

[Rostam]

I am going to add another item to the list

12. Poor weight distribution. Trailers must have at least 10% to 15% of the gross weight on the tongue for stability. Usually, an empty trailer has a 10% tongue weight (so trailer is stable even if you pull it empty). As you load the trailer with gears, water, etc, the tongue weight goes up. Most Airstreams have tongue weight in 15% to 20% range -- Most have over 1000# tongue weight. People who have actually measured the tongue weight report 1250# for a 25' Airstream, 900# for a 23' Airstream, and 850# for a 19' Airstream. Such a heavy tongue weight will overwhelm the rear axle/suspension of all but substantial tow vehicles (I wonder if this heavy tongue weight contributes to Airstream's not so great towing characteristics). You need a class IV hitch to support the tongue weight, and you can only find it on a pickup or a body-on-frame SUV/van. So much for "Airstreams tow easy and can be pulled with sedans/minivans". No auto manufacturer will put a class IV hitch on a unibody vehicle as unibody cannot support heavy weight distribution.

As a side note, some Airstreamers go to Canada to "reinforce" their receiver by a shop they follow as god almighty to circumvent the heavy Airstream tongue weight issue. I directly asked the shop owner a simple question: "How much weight can the reinforced receiver carry?". The amount of time he spent to not provide an answer was shocking. He asked what my trailer was and told me "you're fine". But thats not what I has asked. I told him I may change my trailer or want to tow a boat or cargo trailer and need to know the capacity of the hitch. He talked about his customers being happy and not having any issues. So, I rephrased my question: "Can the reinforced hitch carry 1000#?". He said yes. I asked him if he would put that in the invoice and again he went about not giving an answer.

So, the moral of the story is if it looks like BS, smells like BS, then it most probably is BS. So much for hitch "reinforcement" by the best expert in North America.

P.S. I am not an auto engineer but have found several issues with the advertised "reinforcement", which again nobody can explain how it would work or be safe.

[KYAvion]

I think the tongue weights of Airstream trailers has increased over the years. When I took my 79 to the CAT scales, my tongue weight was around 700 lbs.

I think the shop you are referring to is reinforcing hitches on vehicles not rated to tow at sufficient capacity (e.g, minivans, lighter weight SUVs). From what I understand, they add a central bar to the receiver to minimize the effect of twisting caused by weight distribution. I’m sure there are also some other “creative” solutions as well. I wonder how these would hold up in court if there were an accident. I definitely wouldn’t want to find out.

[Razorback]

I thought about adding several comments about the much-vaunted hitch guru to the north..... suffice it to say, I would not buy anything nor rely on his advice for anything.

[Rostam]

I think the tongue weights of Airstream trailers has increased over the years. When I took my 79 to the CAT scales, my tongue weight was around 700 lbs.

I think the shop you are referring to is reinforcing hitches on vehicles not rated to tow at sufficient capacity (e.g, minivans, lighter weight SUVs). From what I understand, they add a central bar to the receiver to minimize the effect of twisting caused by weight distribution. I’m sure there are also some other “creative” solutions as well. I wonder how these would hold up in court if there were an accident. I definitely wouldn’t want to find out.

Correct. The weights I mentioned are for new Airstreams. Older Airstreams are lighter and also have lighter tongue weights.

[Rostam]

I thought about adding several comments about the much-vaunted hitch guru to the north..... suffice it to say, I would not buy anything nor rely on his advice for anything.

I agree 100%. Also, I did not plan to modify my vehicle. I just wanted to know how real his claims were.