34XB freshwater tank

Freshwater System, Grey and Black Tanks, LP Gas
ericlarson
Posts: 10
Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2017 5:59 pm

34XB freshwater tank

Post by ericlarson » Wed Nov 29, 2017 7:00 pm

Post moved from Introductions forum.

Thanks for the replies. I successfully installed a different three stage charge/converter and also installed two 120Watt panels and a Morningstar Duo controller. I removed the two 12volt marine batteries that were in the battery compartment and installed two Trojan T105 batteries. There are two other 12volt marine batteries in the basement under the couch/behind the battery compartment that are connected to the system. The prior owner had these installed but I don't like the way they are open in the basement. Explosive gases can accumulate. I also have no way to easily remove these 12 volt batteries or service them. Anyone have any tips? Took the rig out for a shake down and found need of a new 20' awning. Had fabric installed by cheap labor and am now paying the price. Live and learn. Torsion spring broke so I just ordered two new ones for the A & E Elite 9000 awning. I'll install these myself with help from a buddy. (We have experience replacing awning fabric.) The largest concern of mine is that in my last couple trips the fresh water tank leaks. I was told that the tank had a leak and would hold 50% of the usual 70 gallons. Now I find it drains completely. The leak seems to be aft of the forward axle near center or slightly toward the driver side. It is in a space in the basement that is inaccessible. Any tips on troubleshooting this or links to companies that do tank repair/replacement in SoCal would be appreciated. Don't send info about a company unless you have experienced their service in water tank repair. Links to blogs on how to get to the tanks (from the top or from the bottom) would also be helpful. I plan to be towing this trailer to Florida in the Spring and look forward to meeting some of the fellow Avion owners on the trip. Let me know about any future Avion rallies that are coming up. Safe Travels, Eric

KYAvion
Site Admin
Posts: 472
Joined: Sun Sep 18, 2016 12:04 am

Re: New Avion owner only 10 days

Post by KYAvion » Wed Nov 29, 2017 7:55 pm

Regarding the fresh water tank, I would personally drop the bellypan in that area and replace the tank. I tried patching the water tank on my prior airstream, and it worked for a bit until other leaks started to appear. Between the time spent dropping and putting the tank back, and the cost of repair kits, I regretted not just buying a new tank from the get go.

Would love to see pics of your XB. Please post some in the pics forum when you get a chance. How much more OUTSIDE storage do you think the XB has compared to a regular Avion?
KYAvion
1984 Avion 30R

silverloaf
Posts: 100
Joined: Wed Aug 23, 2017 8:01 pm

Re: 34XB freshwater tank

Post by silverloaf » Sun Dec 03, 2017 9:37 pm

ericlarson wrote:
Wed Nov 29, 2017 7:00 pm
Post moved from Introductions forum.

Thanks for the replies. I successfully installed a different three stage charge/converter and also installed two 120Watt panels and a Morningstar Duo controller. I removed the two 12volt marine batteries that were in the battery compartment and installed two Trojan T105 batteries. There are two other 12volt marine batteries in the basement under the couch/behind the battery compartment that are connected to the system. The prior owner had these installed but I don't like the way they are open in the basement. Explosive gases can accumulate. I also have no way to easily remove these 12 volt batteries or service them. Anyone have any tips? Took the rig out for a shake down and found need of a new 20' awning. Had fabric installed by cheap labor and am now paying the price. Live and learn. Torsion spring broke so I just ordered two new ones for the A & E Elite 9000 awning. I'll install these myself with help from a buddy. (We have experience replacing awning fabric.) The largest concern of mine is that in my last couple trips the fresh water tank leaks. I was told that the tank had a leak and would hold 50% of the usual 70 gallons. Now I find it drains completely. The leak seems to be aft of the forward axle near center or slightly toward the driver side. It is in a space in the basement that is inaccessible. Any tips on troubleshooting this or links to companies that do tank repair/replacement in SoCal would be appreciated. Don't send info about a company unless you have experienced their service in water tank repair. Links to blogs on how to get to the tanks (from the top or from the bottom) would also be helpful. I plan to be towing this trailer to Florida in the Spring and look forward to meeting some of the fellow Avion owners on the trip. Let me know about any future Avion rallies that are coming up. Safe Travels, Eric

If your XB is built similar to our 30P, the fresh tank is supported by a sheet of plywood. The plywood is anchored to strips of angle iron that are welded to the frame rails. The belly pan covers the plywood.
If the tank wall is leaking, it will be very difficult to find a leak that could be moving around.

You might want to check the hose connections. There should be a split access cover where the hoses pass from the tank into the coach. There is also a drain hose to empty the tank. You might be able to see the tank monitoring probes that are spin-welded in the tank wall. I suggest removing the cover and checking the hoses and fittings for evidence of leakage. You might find bad hoses or leaking fittings.

If all else fails you might want to call Chuck Cayo at Cayo Trailer Repair Service in Michigan. (269) 463-5068. The Cayo family founded Avion. He would likely know the leak history of XB tanks and tank builders.

Bob

ericlarson
Posts: 10
Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2017 5:59 pm

Re: 34XB freshwater tank

Post by ericlarson » Fri Jan 12, 2018 12:20 am

1/11/18 Thanks for the response KYAvion. I will post some photos. (OOPS, just attempted but error stated file too large. I will look into adding images later.) I knew that the fresh water tank had a leak before I purchased it. I'm not afraid to try my hand at most fix-it projects thanks to YouTube. There isn't much on the web for similar coaches to my 34XB. I am curious as to exactly how many were built in 1988-89. I digress.
With help from my buddy we easily installed the new heavy duty torsion springs in the awning. At my buddy's urging we also were able to slide the aluminum cover that attached the awning aft a bit so now when the awning is retracted it aligns perfectly with the side supports and 1 person can operate this like new. I do have one problem with the new awning. When I ordered the new fabric I didn't take into account the additional space that the aluminum awning cover takes up and ordered a standard size. Result is that now the center support leg is too short to offer any support when the awning is extended. Anyone know where I can pick up about 7 feet of 15/16" X 15/16" aluminum square tubing? In addition we successfully removed old/secured new batteries (minor loss of blood here as crawling around in the trailer basement is a tight fit. I now have 4 X 6 Volt Trojan T-105's to store power for boondocking.
On to the water system. I have tried to stop a few slow leaks that are at the connection points of various fittings in the compartment where the water pump and a bunch of the water hoses connect. On my coach it is under the aft dinette seat and near the outside wall where the city water connection is. I am happy to see that Avion (or maybe a prior owner) installed a pressure regulator valve. I have found the following water system problems other than the fresh water tank leak. 1) the city water check valve no longer works 2) several fittings in the PEX pipes leak when city water is hooked up 3) the water pump runs, shuts off for about 30 seconds and then cycles again over and over. Also, when I turned off the water pump I could hear a squealing as pressure somewhere was being released. I have successfully troubleshot and fixed all of these issues except the last. I have finally figured out that the original Shurflo pump's built in check valve is not working. I contacted Surflo and they said parts are no longer available. I am likely going to replace the old one with a new model that has a little more GPM flow rate. Cost on eBay or Amazon is $60-$80. If I get 10 years use out of it I think that is a good value.
On to the larger issue of my fresh water tank. First I have my Avion on a cement slab next to where I live so working on it and access to my tools is easy for me. I am in SoCal and so the weather doesn't prevent my working outside. The biggest challenge to my working under the trailer is that there is virtually no clearance. This is especially true when trying to maneuver under the axles. Truly a pain! It appears that someone before me has done work on the underbelly. Here is why I believe this and ask anyone that really knows to confirm my suspicion. Front of the forward axle the belly pan sections run from one side to the other. Slightly aft of the forward axle there are four pieces of sheet metal about 30" wide and about 9 feet long that run lengthwise to the rear where again the sections end running from side to side. These four sections of sheet metal overlap and are held in place with a lot of sheet metal screws that penetrate into (but not through) chip board beyond the metal. There are two places where there are rectangular sheet metal pieces that are about 8" X 20" that seem to be used to cover where someone has cut out the chip board. Removing one of these sections revealed a 3" hole made by a hole saw. I can see where the person using the hole saw cut through a copper pipe. My guess is that it was the propane line to the rear furnace. This explains why there is exposed copper propane lines running under the trailer to various places. In removing 3 of the 4 lengthwise metal belly pan sections I uncovered a section of rotted, moldy, wet, spongy and sagging chip board. My goal is to remove 1-2 of these chip board sections and reveal the blue foam beyond and hopefully a void where the holding tanks reside. I plan to replace the chip board with marine grade plywood or else some lightweight composite material if I can locate a decent replacement product that will not sag like this chip board. Any suggestions? I feel like Carter opening King Tut's tomb because I dare not desecrate/cut/damage whatever lies beyond the chipboard.

KYAvion
Site Admin
Posts: 472
Joined: Sun Sep 18, 2016 12:04 am

Re: 34XB freshwater tank

Post by KYAvion » Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:45 am

Sounds like you're making some headway, but still working through some stuff. Would you mind to cut and paste the part about the awning into a topic in the Exterior Restoration forum, and also do the same with a separate post in Plumbing for your water issues not related to the tank? These are some good topics, and keeping them in separate posts will help keep answers organized, as well as make future searches for these issues easier to find by others.
KYAvion
1984 Avion 30R

ericlarson
Posts: 10
Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2017 5:59 pm

How to post photos

Post by ericlarson » Sat Jan 20, 2018 3:47 pm

Thank you for the feedback and tips about being a bit more specific with my posts. Makes sense.
I have been attempting to post my images (jpeg) files. Please direct me to instructions how to post my photos. Is there a way I can upload my photos directly form my computer or do I need to upload them from a website like Facebook or Shutterfly?

KYAvion
Site Admin
Posts: 472
Joined: Sun Sep 18, 2016 12:04 am

Re: 34XB freshwater tank

Post by KYAvion » Sat Jan 20, 2018 4:27 pm

Look forward to seeing pics, and yes, you can import them straight from your computer or phone. Check out this FAQ link and let me know if you have any trouble.

http://www.aviontrailers.net/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=168
KYAvion
1984 Avion 30R

ericlarson
Posts: 10
Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2017 5:59 pm

1989 34XB images of open belly pan.

Post by ericlarson » Sat Jan 20, 2018 4:36 pm

I finally found/read the photo posting instructions. I hope this works.
IMG_3207.jpg
Yikes! Discovered prior owner had used some sort of "Flex Seal" type stuff to fix leak on fresh H2O tank. Now it is beyond repair. I need to remove fresh tank.
IMG_3207.jpg (110.99 KiB) Viewed 23 times
]
IMG_3215.jpg
View after tearing open belly pan to expose fresh H2O tank and part of gray tank. Yesterday to my dismay discovered that gray tank also has serious leak. Next step tear out more sections of belly aft of front axle.
IMG_3215.jpg (100.42 KiB) Viewed 23 times
Last edited by ericlarson on Sat Jan 20, 2018 5:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

KYAvion
Site Admin
Posts: 472
Joined: Sun Sep 18, 2016 12:04 am

Re: 34XB freshwater tank

Post by KYAvion » Sat Jan 20, 2018 4:49 pm

Nice looking trailer! I know you probably don't want to hear this, but I'd really consider going with a new tank. I'd be worried any "fix" would just eventually start leaking again. Hopefully someone here knows where to find an exact fit replacement.
KYAvion
1984 Avion 30R

ericlarson
Posts: 10
Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2017 5:59 pm

Re: 34XB freshwater tank

Post by ericlarson » Sat Jan 20, 2018 5:56 pm

Dear KYAvion,
I am in total agreement with your thought about replacing the tank. I am hoping that the company near me (Inca Products in Adelanto, CA) can help. I plan to attempt to remove the old fresh water tank through the bottom of the trailer. I already have jacked up the Avion more and have it secured with wooden blocks in 4 points slightly in front and behind the front and rear tires. Hope to be able to post success as I proceed. Fingers crossed.

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