30 Amp to 50 Amp Conversion

110 volt, 12 volt, Batteries, Converters and Inverters, Solar
Jim Golden
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Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2016 1:39 pm

30 Amp to 50 Amp Conversion

Post by Jim Golden »

Hi Gang,

Been meaning to put some good technical stuff on here but just have been swamped busy.....

I've swapped out nearly everything on my '87 34X. Here I'll show a few pics of my 30amp to 50amp conversion.

I got tired of the breaker popping all the time when I had the a/c on, wife was using the hair dryer, and I wanted to microwave something. Finally enough was enough. Did my homework, and settled on a Progressive Dynamics 4560 full power station. It's their 4500 series, set up for 60 amp (but dialed down to 50). Nice thing about a 50amp RV setup is that you get two bus bars, not just one. So you get two bus bars of 50 amp times 120v = 6000amps times two = 12,000 watts. Before I had one bus bar of 30amps times 120v = 3600 watts. So I went from 3600 watts to 12,000 watts...we don't run out of juice now and I can make toast while wifey runs her hair dryer and kids are nuking a Hot Pocket.

Here's my setup: http://www.progressivedyn.com/all_in_one_pd4500_1.html

I wanted it mounted so the breaker door swung side to side. It would have fit the factory hole (almost) if I'd laid it on its side, and I've seen some guys do that. I wanted it the other way. So I had to make the hole taller, and narrower. So I cut out the factory cabinetry across from the fridge and under the pantry to make it taller, then glued and screwed in some pieces to fill it in to make it narrower. The new Power Center was deeper than the old Univolt thing, so I had to shim it in toward the center of the coach. Made a spacer out of 3/4" plywood and painted it black to match the PD4560. I think it looks great. So now the power center fits in the hole.

I then had to upgrade the main wiring. For 50amp, if you check the codes, an 8 gauge wire will work under some circumstances. But not all. Depends on heat, length of run, etc. I decided to spend the money and go to a bigger wire. I put in a 6-gauge, and I'd recommend anyone else do the same. It's a beast of a wire, but you won't have to worry about over heating it. I strung the wire through the bottom cabinets, using pool floaties to protect the wire from chaffing as it passed through bulkheads, etc. Once I got directly across from the front half of the dinette, where the power plug goes to the outside, I dropped it under the floor, went across, then popped back up through the floor into that compartment. I then went out the factory hole, put a male end plug on it, and it's good to go.

It does get a little tricky with the wiring of the breakers and the fuses. You're doing both a 120v ac and a 12v dc system. But take your time and you'll be fine. I used GE breakers (I think....that or Square D....whichever, they were compatible with the PD panel and PD tells you which ones will work..). I got all my breakers and wires at Lowe's.

Have been very happy with it. I carry a 30amp to 50amp pig tail so that if we're at a place that only has 30amp, we're covered. I also have a 20amp to 30amp plug adapter. So if they have electric, we can plug in.

Anyway, hope this helps every one a little. I'll try to put some more stuff on here. I made new tail light housings, changed out the fridge, the a/c, the water heater, the toilet, the faucets, built a custom bunk bed for the front to replace the gaucho, converted the back to a rear king instead of twins, new shower curtain setup, new roof vents...not much left original but the shell. If I can do it, anyone can. I highly recommend Bob Livingston's book. It helped me a lot.

See ya on the road,
Jim
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KYAvion
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Re: 30 Amp to 50 Amp Conversion

Post by KYAvion »

Nice job, Jim. I've considered upgrading to 50 amp as well. I've already got a nice custom 12v panel with automotive style breakers (instead of fuses) from my previous trailer, and was just considering adding a standard 50 subpanel (after running the 6awg of course). Other than ease of installation, any benefit I might be missing by not going with a combined panel like the PD?
KYAvion
1984 Avion 30R
Jim Golden
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Re: 30 Amp to 50 Amp Conversion

Post by Jim Golden »

I can't think of any disadvantages at all, other than you might have to run two separate panels. Other than that, though, I'd think that having 12V breakers would be better than fuses. You might call Progressive Dynamics and ask them about modifying one of their panels like I used here to put your 12v breaker panel in the other side.

I know you can just buy one of their converters and keep the OEM panel. But you'll still have the issue of where to put the 12v breaker panel. I'd probably just call them and see what they say.

I should note: I bought my PD4560 off ebay from an RV supply house and got it cheap. I don't remember the place, but it was new in the box and I think I got it for like $190 or $210 or something. It was quite a bit cheaper than most places.

Same with my Maxair roof vents....I found Panther RV had them way cheaper than anybody else so I ordered all three of them at the same time. I got the Deluxe models that do their intake from the bottom, so you can run them in the rain and don't have to worry about leaks.

These old trailers are fun :)
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KYAvion
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Re: 30 Amp to 50 Amp Conversion

Post by KYAvion »

That's not a bad price on the combo unit. I was thinking a disadvantage of the combo might be that you may have to replace the entire thing if the converter goes bad, but at that price it'd be no big deal.

Another plus of MaxAir is their customer service. I have some vent covers that were showing some cracking after a couple years. A single phone call and they sent me 3 new ones right away.
KYAvion
1984 Avion 30R
Jim Golden
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Re: 30 Amp to 50 Amp Conversion

Post by Jim Golden »

That's good to know on the MaxAir fans. I've been really happy with them. We accidentally left the lid up on the original bathroom one in NC. Got back to WV and it was gone...so I guess it wound up along 95 somewhere. I like the way these deluxe models are made.

On the 4560 (and similar models), you can swap out just the converter. So if it goes bad, you don't have to throw out the whole station. Or, you can buy just the converter and install it in your OEM station if you prefer. I forget where I got mine from, but it was an RV wholesale type place that had a store on ebay. It's been great. I don't cook batteries anymore with their Charge Wizard setup. Always keeps them topped off. With the old one, I'd have to shut down the 12v and then turn it back on as the old converter charger would cook the batteries.

The 6 gauge wire is pretty spendy, but buy 3' more than you need. It's nice to have a little slack in there, and it's better to throw out 2' (or save it for a club) than to come up a foot short :) I just measured a big "L" and added 3' and it worked out fine. I leave slack in there for trailer flex, etc.


Man all this talk makes me want to go camping! :)
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KYAvion
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Re: 30 Amp to 50 Amp Conversion

Post by KYAvion »

“Did my homework, and settled on a Progressive Dynamics 4560 full power station. It's their 4500 series, set up for 60 amp (but dialed down to 50).”

@Jim Golden Did you have to increase the wire size between your converter and the batteries? Also, how did you go about dialing down to 50amp 12v from 60 amp?
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Razorback
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Re: 30 Amp to 50 Amp Conversion

Post by Razorback »

I would like to thank Jim for making the original post about this conversion.

I have kicked around the idea of converting to a 50A service, but have not convinced myself to do it, yet. My wife and I manage by not running too many high-amperage stuff at one time, and for whatever reason, I don't have the problem of cooking the batteries.

....... Maybe some day.
Razorback (Paul)
1987 Avion 34W
1995 Ford F-250 7.3L PowerStroke
I'm a "whosoever"... are you???
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KYAvion
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Re: 30 Amp to 50 Amp Conversion

Post by KYAvion »

I’ll probably just upgrade the 110v to 50 amp for now, and later on will swap out the converter. However, if my current 12v wire size will allow me to do the combo unit like Jim used, then I may go that route.
KYAvion
1984 Avion 30R
Jim Golden
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Re: 30 Amp to 50 Amp Conversion

Post by Jim Golden »

Hi guys,

Been awhile since I've been on here but got the text message :)

For the charging of the batteries, I don't think you need to change anything. That amount of power doesn't really change.

The only wire I had to change out was the main feed to the side compartment where the 6 wire went. It's been a long time and my memory is foggy, but I think I used a 6 gauge wire that four conductors. I'm pretty sure of that. You can get the wire at Lowes or similar. It's expensive as it's about 1" in diameter...but make sure you buy at least 1 foot longer than you think you need. It's better to throw out a foot of wire than find out you are a foot short and have to buy a whole new piece. You can't really splice it.

I used Pool Floaties that I sliced to "cushion" the big wire. On my 34X, the power center is just aft of the kitchen. So I ran the big wire along the floor behind where the pots and pans usually get stored. I used the Pool floaties to keep it off the floor and "insulate" it. Not sure if you have to...but I did. I drilled a hole in the floor and dropped the big 6-wire under the floor, through the belly pan area (I used three straps to hold it in place under the floor) and then popped it back up on the other side by the dinette and then through that side wall into the compartment where the power and water hookups are. I made up a new 50amp chord that plugs to it.

It's been great for many years now and I've never looked back.

Hope this helps. My email is jimgoldenpe@hotmail.com if you want to contact me more directly. I really like my Avion but haven't gotten to use it as much as I'd like the last few years and haven't been on here much. But feel free to give me a shout and I'll help you as much as I can.

My 21' main awning has always had a broken spring and has lots of rips. I need a new one. What's a covered roll going for these days from ZipDee? It was $1300 ten years ago....

Take care,
Jim
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KYAvion
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Re: 30 Amp to 50 Amp Conversion

Post by KYAvion »

Hi Jim- thanks for getting back. I’ve never bought a new awning or priced them, but I imagine they aren’t cheap.

For the 220v 50 amp service, you’re right that it’s 4 conductor 6 gauge copper. My concern has been the upgrade from the factory converter, which I believe is 45 amps (I need to verify when I’m at my camper next), up to a larger rated converter in the 60 amp or greater range. I don’t need an increase in converter size, but the smallest that combo unit you installed comes with is 60 amps.

I need to verify the size of the wires from the batteries—I’m afraid they might be too small. However, it sounds like you haven’t had any trouble, although your converter may sit closer to the batteries than mine does. My converter isacross from the center bath below the wardrobe closet, so I’d guess it’s roughly 20 feet away, which is a 40 foot run since it’s DC. From what I’ve read, recommendations are that the converter be as close to the batteries as possible to reduce the wire size needed. I’m not sure why Avion put it so far away, but then again they weren’t planning on an upsized converter either.
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1984 Avion 30R
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